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	Interview with Alistair Griffin recorded 19th June 2004 in Castleton, North York Moors, prior to his gig at Jumpin' Jax, Middlesbrough, with Riccardi. (page 2)
	AG: The first time? The BBC were hyping it as some big talent search. It was going to be different, it was going to be songwriters, and singers, and players, and we're looking for the next Sting. Then I saw the first show, and thought, "Thank God I didn't get in it." (laughs) Because it was terrible. They were all sitting there, it was a bit of a big … they were asking them to learn eight songs, sing in eight different harmonies, it looked like a lot of your "Saturday Night at the Palladium" sort of thing. I thought, "Thank God for that." As it turned out, it improved. They did quite a good job I think, getting people across who'd written their own songs, and then performing them. It's good, because Saturday night telly, it's pretty rare that you hear new material from completely unknown artists. And that's what interested me. I thought it could have been better. Why not do more of that? They're showing people in the songwriting process. It's a bit artificial. But that's kind of the nature of the beast. I just thought it was a bit too showbiz. It was a bit too drama school. They picked people who were quite ordinary, really. They could sing a bit, but ... I actually thought, and I think I know what went on - I think they tried to get an older guy, a blonde girl …. people with different backgrounds. And they kind of forgot that they actually needed talented people. So they ended up with what they got. And for a long time it was …. you know. I heard someone saying there were probably only three or four people who could carry it off. On the first one. PB: Getting shortlisted, that was out of how many? How many hundreds applied? AG: Fifteen thousand. PB: Extraordinary. AG: It's a thing that annoys me when people go, "It's rubbish". They just look at it and it's like with Pop Idol ... Pop Idol …. I can't stand it. But good luck to them, because it's bloody hard to get up and sing in front of all those millions of people. But people forget, fifteen thousand people auditioned, that's a hell of lot of people. And I know, and I've knocked around long enough in music, to know that a lot of people, a hundred say, the last hundred, or last thousand, some of them are brilliant. But again, they didn't quite fit the mould, or they weren't quite what they were looking for. And there were some people with great songs, people who'd had hits. People who were in the business already, and they didn't get through. So I think when people knock it and say, "It's the easy way of doing it," it bloody isn't. And the other thing is that a lot of people, who I play with at these quite credible acoustic gigs down in London, come to me and say, "I tried to get on that. I applied for that." But they're not judged when they get up and sing. The minute I get up and sing, it's …. "Aah … you might recognise his face ..." (laughs) I'm known because I got through and came second. These other guys, people look at them and respect them, but they went for it as well. But they didn't get on. PB: Tough, the whole thing. When it came down to it ..... I'll ask you this though I know you're probably tired of being asked it ... how did it feel coming second? AG: At the time, it was just a massive relief to be out of the thing, to be honest. It was just getting too stressful, and the pressure was stupid. I knew I was in with a chance at the end. It was a little bit disappointing in that …., more so after, because people were like, "Oh, you were miles ahead on the votes, somehow ……. she caught you up." Yeah. Strange, that. (laughs) I'll say no more. It was a bit disappointing afterwards. More so how you get treated. The emphasis was totally on the person who won, but we've all had record deals. And they said to me, "You're both winners really." But, she had the time and application ….. applying to what she does. I don't want to start moaning about stuff, but there was a marked difference between the winner and second place. PB: Would you swap places, though, on reflection? AG: I don't know. Because ….. I know she sold a lot of records, but I think you get pushed around. I'm out of my deal now, and I can do what I want. I've got a bit of money, blah blah, and I can at least take it along a more credible route. But I think Alex is stuck with "I was the winner of Fame Academy" for the rest of her career. However far it goes. I think so. David Sneddon is a cautionary tale, I think. I like Alex, I think she's good, but she's always going to have that. Whereas I can disappear off into a band, forget the name, forget Fame Academy, do this, do my songs, and if people like it ....... PB: It must have been an extraordinary experience for yourself, in general, but there are other more direct things. Like you share a house or flat with James, who was one of the guys, mutually supportive roles perhaps? AG: Yeah, definitely. PB: In the sense that he would understand what you both know, what you've both been through, which I would have thought was quite rare. AG: Yeah. We're very lucky in that sense. In the house in Fame Academy we got on incredibly well, we had a similar sense of humour. We realised what was going on with regards ... You're a little bit manipulated on these TV programmes. And we realised that. And we just took the piss out of it, and enjoyed them trying to manipulate us, by totally rebelling and having a laugh. And it helps, and it helps now. And I look back ..... actually, I was saying to James the other day, those were actually extraordinary great times. At the time it was, "Oh God, when will this be over, get me out." But now we look back, and we did some fantastic things. Very unusual, bizarre, singing in front of eight million people, it's crazy. And I sang my own songs five weeks running. But now it's carried forward, and we are …… You go through the mill with having a record deal, completely. And he's gone through a lot of his own ….. we accept our lot a lot better because we can laugh about it, have a proper talk about it. ----------------------- PB: There's been extensions too, beyond …. there's been the World Fame Academy, a duet with Phil Collins. Amazing. You came sixth or something in that. How did that feel? Was that a one-weekend gig? AG: Yeah, it was a weekend in Cannes. It was brilliant to be in Cannes, we were in a lovely hotel in Cannes. It was quite bizarre really, the whole thing. The European way of doing it was completely different. It was in France obviously, Cannes, and it was very haphazard. I just thought, "God, what is this? This is never going to come off, this TV programme." People were running around …. they had dancers and stuff. I was singing a ballad. I was singing "Everything I Do" - Bryan Adams, and they had dancers in fishnet stockings come on the stage. Bizarre, it really was. (laughs) But it was good, it was great fun. And again, a massive twenty million people watching. But at that point, it never crosses my mind. I just get up and sing. But yeah, I'm there stood next to Phil Collins. I've got most of his albums, Greatest Hits, blah blah. And there we are. He's going, "It's nice, isn't it." I did "Another Day in Paradise", which is probably my favourite song of his. But yeah, a fantastic occasion. It's a bit like working with Robin Gibb - you look back and think, "God, I'm stunned." These legendary people you're working with. PB: But you find that the guy in fact is perhaps a little bit quiet and decent. (Yeah). Is that what you found? AG: Absolutely. Phil Collins is the same, he's just down to earth. Robin's very quiet, unassuming, very easy to get on with, he's no prima donna. In actual fact Robin goes out of his way to make you feel all right about stuff. PB: And a good musician. AG: Unlike ... when we were on Fame Academy I did a duet with Daniel Beddingfield. He's a little bit hyperactive, should I say. He was quite difficult to work with. He's a good guy, he's all right, it's just how he is. But he'll put a bit of pressure on you. Whereas Robin's, "Oh, don't worry." PB: Robin Gibb's experienced and that. This takes us right back - in fact I'll go back to the top of the list here - which is …. Who were your earliest musical influences. Who did you listen to? AG: Well, my sisters played Queen. So I guess they're an influence. And all that kind of eighties ... PB: Older sister? Younger sister? AG: Vicky, older. I actually like Queen, I like them now. There's almost a Queen revival at the minute with The Darkness and stuff. Which I quite like. I do like that rock ….. it's definitely there now in what I write, what I think about. I always like the 'anthemicness' of Queen, massive guitars, and a huge song. I think Freddie Mercury was probably the best front man of any band. Well …in recent times. You into Queen? ….. You hate them don't you? [laughs] I like Queen, but it was an influence because it was a presence in our house. I mean, we're not a house where we live and breathe music. It's not …."When me Dad used to dish out the piano playing ….." (laughs) PB: What were the earliest CDs you bought? Looking real back? AG: Probably the Britpop era, things like The Wonder Stuff and The Las, Shed 7 I suppose. All that kind of thing, when I was at school. My real, biggest, literally 'playing the guitar 'influence is Oasis, because I liked Oasis .... again anthemic strong songs. I like everything, I like light stuff as well. I like Sting, I like the folky stuff. I always like folky ... "From Both Sides," what's her name ... (Tori Amos?)... I like Tori Amos ... actually I don't like particularly any individual band. I'm not like a crazy…. "Oh, I love them, I only listen to them." I like songs …. I listen to all …. I listen to the Cure, I listen to bloody …… Frank Sinatra or something. Joni Mitchell ….. It's a real wide mix, but I think with songwriting you have to listen to a lot of things. The Beatles. The Beatles and Oasis, they go hand in hand, they're very similar. PB: The Beatles were masters of construction and the rest of it. AG: Yeah. I look at the John Lennon songs, the Lennon and McCartney songs, the lyrics and the subject matter. "Eleanor Rigby" is one of my favourite Beatles songs, just because of what it's about. When I was on Fame Academy on my list of songs that I wanted to sing, but they didn't let us, was a load of Beatles songs. We got to sing "Let It Be". --------------------- PB: Who are you listening to right now? Do you have any people …. have you discovered anyone? AG: I stopped listening to the radio. I got sick of all this American R&B stuff ... PB: Modern R&B? AG: Yeah, pop R&B. It just does my head in. And it's the same with the guys I play in the band with …. Aah - they just don't get it at all. It's all produced. I like a lot of the American bands, kind of like ….high school rock I suppose you'd call it. A little bit throwaway, but I quite like it. The last album I bought, it's actually ages ago was by 'Good Charlotte'. Kind of pop rock, I suppose, but quite heavy. All got this kind of heavy setting on the guitars. 'Blink 182' I suppose, things like that. And there again .. it's almost a bit too pop. I'm hopeless when people ask me questions like that. PB: Okay, man. (laughs). We'll go back to the business side, Alistair. So you had a management deal, presumably then ... with Fame Academy, I think you've already answered this question in a sense. After it's finished, any further links with the people? Do they just cut you loose? AG: No. Unfortunately. You sign the record deal before you go in, which is outrageous …. They're able to just sign you. The BBC and Endemol Production Company. So you sign the record deal, the management deal, and obviously the right to be on the show, before you go in, which is crazy. The manager you've met once. A manager is the most important relationship…. but well, you don't have a choice, do you. You're either not on the programme, or you sign to this. They shouldn't make you do that, it's not fair. It's your career, and no matter what….. I think that's partly been my downfall. PB: Downfall? (laughs) AG: No, not my downfall, but the deal I was in became very difficult. I had a manager that I got on with, but he didn't have the same ideas as me, and vision. And the record company was kind of the same. It makes it really difficult. When you're forced into that situation ... well, not so much forced, but you inherit, I inherited a situation, and it wasn't necessarily ... Yeah, you get all these things, and you have to make the best of it. I think the worst thing you inherit I suppose is people's perception of Fame Academy itself. This year, they're saying we sang a lot of covers. And I was sitting there and had no choice in what I sang at all. I sang every song they told me to sing. And other people got to choose. But that's by the by…. PB: But you cut it all the same. AG: Yeah, I think what me and James had was we were versatile. Some people on the show sang in one style, one style only, and probably couldn't sing in any other style. PB: Perhaps you had to sing in a style that was total anathema to you. AG: Yeah, absolutely, we were, with some of them. I was getting songs, "Oh God, what am I going to do here?" I got "This Old Heart of Mine", which is a great song, a classic. But the track it was produced to … was like ... "This is like cabaret." And I was absolutely panic…. It was difficult. It was very hard. But that really was the turning point. I know for a fact, they told me, that I got the most votes that week, by a long way, the biggest vote they'd had. Because it was on after Songs of Praise. (laughs). It's true. So I'm singing "This Old Heart of Mine", in a cabaret style, and all the Songs of Praise viewers are like, "Oh, I like him." (laughs) But that's how it works, it's crazy. It's like the whole thing of being on a Saturday night, you've got to sing standards. You've got to sing things people know. PB: So, subsequently, you're currently signed with Universal, and with Perfect Publishing. Are they linked together? AG: No. PB: Were there many people, was there a war on for you? How did the recording deal come about? AG: The recording deal? You just sign it. PB: Oh I see, that's what you've just described. AG: Yeah,they have a right to exploit anyone they want to exploit. So they have a right to exploit the record deal. But you sign it before you go in. You sign the 'winner's deal' ... and … PB: This was through Universal …. AG: Yeah. It was all done, all dusted. ---------------------------------- PB: Okay, so looking to now, looking forward a little bit, how much autonomy do you currently have, gigging-wise or artistically? AG: Well now, I'm concerned about say ....about financial matters I suppose, but that's all. I have total autonomy. PB: Do you? AG: Well, you know, I've got a band together, I might be moving labels….. PB: Was it a one-album deal in that case? AG: To be honest, if you don't make them a shit load of money, it's always one album. Or possibly a couple of singles. Or one single. (laughs) It's just facts and figures these days. PB: Chits of paper paper at board meetings. AG: Yeah, and if they don't want you, they'll get rid of you. I haven't quite been got rid of yet, but I'm not really bothered, I'll be glad…... Whatever happens, I'm kind of in charge. I haven't got a manager any more. My manager again, I said, "Look, this isn't working". You have to be strong. I could have floated along with that for another two years, and just been strangled out of the business. You've got to be strong. For me ….. I want to start a band. I want a band. Whatever I do now, whatever I do now, I might have to do a couple of slightly not so credible things, but I think the thing is just to establish credibility. Establish what I had before, where it was "Write a song, sing it". And so when people go, (whispers) "The guy off Fame Academy." …. You know. I want to lose that. I'm consciously losing that ... I know people say, "Oh that's a bit ungrateful," (Laughs) "they put him where he is, Fame Academy made him". But it didn't, it just gave me a chance to show people what I can do. PB: And some serious experience fast, really fast. AG: Absolutely. There were some fantastic things on there, performing on TV. PB: Good and bad, I'm not suggesting it was all good. AG: Yeah, I had some great times. I probably had the best time of anyone, I had such a laugh. I was allowed to be myself, and get across my sort of humour and sort of bizarreness, but also sit down and play a piano and guitar …. you know. A fantastic opportunity. PB: Tonight you're working with Riccardi. Is this a permanent band, (Yeah), is this a nucleus, how does this relate to your ...? AG: Yeah, they are Riccardi PB: A band in their own right, aren't they? AG: Yeah, they have their own little group. They're guys who, funnily enough, they want nothing to do with the record deals or the music business, they just want to play. And I'm using them, I'm exploiting them, for all they're worth. (laughs) No, they're a very very tight band. PB: We were really impressed at the Music Live thing in Boro the other week, I thought your act was great. And yet there was some serious competition on there. AG: They're a great band. They're really good. I'm really impressed. I sort of stumbled across them in a club, that I play in, an acoustic …., and they were there …and these guys are really good. And we're going to hopefully, probably will do … go forward as a band. PB: What have been your memorable gigs so far?
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