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	BACK DOOR
	An interview with Tony Hicks recorded by Pete Bell at the Lion Inn, Blakey Ridge, North York Moors, on 21st January 2003 Page 2
	Pete: What happened, did you just land in New York, and that was the prime thing, to make a second album? Tony: Oh yes, Electric Lady studios. It was a smashing experience, being in New York. But it just seemed a little silly. God knows what the bill must have been. And you can make records at home, can't you. Even in them days. We would have better off. Again, I thought……. But whatever. Pete: Was it then straight into the major-league touring? Tony: Yeah, that's right. Pete: Which Warners organised? Tony: Yeah, doing massive tours of America ....... and getting paid forty pound a week. Again, it just doesn't make any sense. But nothing made sense in them days, the '70s. Pete: What sort of places were you playing in the States? And there was European stuff, wasn't there? Tony: Massive joints. Big stadiums. Pete: Was it well promoted? Tony: Oh yeah, they were all packed out. But we were supporting ….. We did some magical ones….. supporting Miles Davis, and Sly and the Family Stone was another. Absolutely tremendous stuff. And then some really daft things. Heavy rock and Emerson, Lake and Palmer. Who are only a trio as well .….. (laughs) I used to set my little three-piece Gretsch kit up in front of Carl Palmer's British Steel seventeen-piece .……. (laughs) It was the funniest thing, man. I used to crack up laughing. (laughs) One of them nights, playing in the big arenas, and we kicked off, and we couldn't hear the saxophone. There was only three of us, and one of us totally inaudible. We thought, what's happening, the monitors have gone off or something, but we were playing away and we couldn't hear a thing ….. only me and Colin really. And the roadies are scurrying about checking leads and putting mikes on and everything, tearing their hair out, the sound man was going berserk ... Halfway through the tune, Ronnie reaches into the bell of his saxophone and pulls out a bloody bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale wrapped in a towel. (laughs) In front of thirty thousand people. Suddenly - pow! My favourite story …… who else would do that! (laughs) Pete: What did Miles Davis make of your band? Tony: He spoke to me, Miles, backstage at the Olympia in Paris. He said, "Get out the way, honky." (laughs) Or summat like that ….in that gravel voice. I thought, "Oh, the master has spoken, I'd better get the hell out of here." I don't think he was particularly impressed. I don't know, how can you tell? At the Rainbow gig, we got better reviews, someone said. Pete: The Rainbow gig? Tony: With Miles, in Britain. Pete: The Rainbow in London? Tony: I think that's what they called it. And then they did a couple of gigs in Paris, when they'd really pulled the act together then. Absolutely terrific. A bit dodgy in the Rainbow, I think, by all accounts. But in Paris, it just went "Woah!" ... That's why. That's why they're where they are. Tremendous. Pete: And then later on, you did some stuff with the Alexis Korner's band. Did you do some touring? Tony: We'd always been with Alexis in a way. Colin especially had known him for a long time. We often used to go touring with Alexis round Germany and that, and we'd end up all playing. We'd do our set, and Alexis would do his, and then we'd all play together. Smashing, great nights. Pete: It seems to me a much happier set up. Tony: Absolutely, instead of playing baseball stadiums. How daft is that. But yeah, they were great tours, them with Alexis. And of course, me and Colin were doing his album when he said, "I've got a headache, I'm going to go home" ... and we never saw him again. He went straight into hospital and died two days later ... Pete: Were you working with him then? Tony: ... in the middle of the sessions, yeah. I think they've managed to cobble something together out of what we'd already done, but obviously it wouldn't have been …..proper. You know what I mean? Lovely, lovely fellow …… Alexis. The world changed. It does when certain people die doesn't it, Miles, Frank Sinatra, Ronnie Scott ….. it's just not the same place, and Alexis is one of them. We're all bereft. Pete: You'd done a bit with Back Door, then you left the outfit at a certain stage. The fourth album? Tony: Yeah, I did three, and then the fourth album, I've never heard it to this day. I just never had a copy. Pete: Were things beginning to ... did it feel like the band was moving on, or was it beginning to disintegrate at that stage? Tony: There was a distinct lack of financial success. And something had to give I suppose. And then I got offered a gig with Andy Fraser. He'd been part of "Free". Because they'd just imploded. They all had a band each, didn't they? So I thought, "Oh, I might as well do that." Things felt a bit funny with Back Door now, so I went off and did that instead. Pete: Was it like, the music was progressing but the returns weren't, or was it just too tough on the road, or ...? Tony: It was a combination of all those things. Things only have a lifespan, don't they. It was sinking into debt.….. It turns out we weren't in debt, the bloody manager ran off with all the money, didn't he. That's why there was no money. (laughs) Which we've since found out. What a twat. That's terrible isn't it? Sat in his Mayfair office, while we're all battling away on the road all the time, and he's stashing all the money away in America. Anyway, I won't go into that one. Pete: Not an unusual story, is it? Tony: No of course it isn't. But it's the lowest thing to do, isn't it. There's supposed to be trust. Pete: Later on, I saw you, it would have been the Coatham Bowl I guess, I don't know if you remember that gig. It would have been towards the late '70s, that was probably still under Warners' auspices. Tony: It must have been, I suppose. Pete: And then, mid-'80s, you did a sort of a get-together tour, didn't you? Tony: Yeah, for the Jazz Action Society, whatever they called it. Pete: Through the Arts Council. What was that like? Tony: It was great, smashing. We did a tour of Norway as well, about that time, which was terrific. Trying to negotiate with the promoters - "All we want is free beer. Doesn't matter what the money is, we must have free beer." The price of beer in Norway! Of course the promoter's having heart attacks, but… "That's the only way we'll do it. We have free beer". So we were really popular, because there was loads of beer in the dressing room, we'd get all the punters to come and have a drink. "Free beer!" (laughs) But yeah, them reunion tours, we had great fun doing those things. Pete: There's still a poster up on the Leeds jazz site, Back Door in 1986 or something, as part of their archive. How many did you do in Norway ….. I mean the gigs? Tony: There must have been a dozen or something, right up the top, in the middle of winter as well of course. It was really great, beautiful. Pete: You've worked with all sorts of people, tell us about subsequent to Back Door and Assegai ... Tony: Well ….I've been a musician all my life, so you work with people….. but I don't look back. They were just jobs, pay the mortgage, feed the kids, you know …they were just jobs. Pete: Didn't I hear about a stint with Paul Butterfield? Tony: Oh, yeah. That would be late eighties. We toured England and across Europe. Meself and Colin on bass, with that guy who works with the Stones on keyboards ........ Ian Stewart. And a guitarist. First time we met we were waiting for him to show up at a rehearsal room in London ..... a bit apprehensive ...... he was a legend wasn't he? Anyway, he shows, about two hours late and says "Alright, what would you guys like to play?". (laughs). Smashing bloke. The tours went really well. A US tour was being organised when we heard he'd died ...... Pete: And you were with Chris Rea for a while. Tony: Yeah. I've been hired and fired three times I think by Chris. (laughs) Because I think he always wanted it to be the same, which is perfectly understandable - he's flogging his product. But of course I could never remember what I'd played the night before. …. so again I was just responding to ... Pete: The vibe at the time. Tony: ... the vibe at the time. Different gig, different amount of brandy, it would be different all the time, and it used to drive the poor lad to distraction. I just couldn't remember ….. what it was. (laughs) It was good fun, enjoyable, really good. I really admire him, Chris ….. great writer. Pete: Great singer too. Tony: Great singer, of course. Pete: Have you done any stuff recently with him? Tony: No, I think he's learnt his lesson. (laughs) Pete: Was it album stuff you did, Tony? Tony: Yeah. "Shamrock Diaries" type era. Pete: It might have been a little bit before then, perhaps roughly the same time, I saw you a few times with Pacific Eardrum, Dave McCrae's outfit. That was interesting ... Tony: Yes it was, and I still work with Dave now in Australia, quite often. Was Big Jim Sullivan on it, when you saw the band, playing guitar? It might have been Isaac. Pete: It was Isaac. I saw you down at the Bull's Head, and I saw you in Middlesbrough. Was it a couple of albums? I've got one of the albums from Dave? Tony: I'm not really sure, it's all a blur, the '70s. Pete: That was a really exciting band that didn't quite make it commercially. Tony: No, but it wouldn't. But it's funny, there's still interest in it now. Talking to McCrae in his kitchen in Australia. People ….. it comes up all the time. Pete: And what does Dave do now? Tony: He does what everybody does, he teaches. Pete: Is he still doing film composition and stuff? Tony: Yeah, he's a phenomenal player is McCrae. Pete: Did Dave come in to Back Door? Was he brought in by Warners? Tony: No. Pete: You decided that. Tony: Yeah, it was just to give it another colour. We were all getting a bit fed up playing as a three-piece, so McCrae was there. I've known him from Australia the first time I went. Pete: Did you introduce Dave to the band, or the band to Dave? Tony: Yeah. Pete: And then he became a regular visitor up here, didn't he, Dave, and it was around that time I'm sure that Bernie would be coming along. Tony: Sure. Bernie was the brother of our roadie. That's how we got to know Bernie. He was delightfully mad, so he had no trouble fitting in. And he was on "Dashing White Sergeant", Bernie. Pete: Excellent player. Tony: Oh, he's terrific, yeah. He's a funny lad, Bernie, you know. He said, "I'm giving up music." I said, "Oh right, what are you going to do?" He said, "I'm going to be a professional competition filler-iner." You should've seen him at home. He'd have stacks of magazines and papers doing 'Spot the Ball' and … hundreds and hundreds of them. He kept winning like a new deep fat fryer ... (laughs) "Show us the money". But I think it was a lot more profitable than music. (laughs) And then he was teaching Asians to drive, which we thought was hilarious, that Bernie, the worst driver in the world, was teaching people to drive. (laughs) No wonder our insurance premiums have gone through the roof. Pete: He ended up doing a good run with Van Morrison, didn't he? Tony: Bernie? I'm sure ……….. Whatever he's done has been terrific. Pete: Other stuff, Tony. You don't talk about it really. You worked with Isaac for quite some time, didn't you, Isaac's band, for a few years? Did you record with that outfit? Tony: Oh yeah. I was still working with Isaac up 'till when he died. We used to do it as a three-piece, with Race (Newton) …. me and Race and Isaac. That was lovely, a lovely thing to do. And it was Pure Chance, I think it was called, that band, when we used to come up here. And we used to toddle off, go and do gigs all over Europe …. some smashing clubs in Paris and Frankfurt. Proper stuff ..... it's more enjoyable. Pete: Small clubs. Tony: Yeah. People who were genuinely interested. Maybe not many of them, but they were there for that reason. It turns out to be a smashing evening. You'd go home clutching your ten quid, but it still felt a lot better than working to thirty thousand punters who couldn't really give a shit. They were there for another reason. Pete: I remember one gig, we'd been working here, anyway a bunch of us went down to Scarborough to see you, at the Penthouse in Scarborough, I'm sure it was there. Tony: With Isaac? Yeah, it would have been. Pete: It ended up with you all dropping your trousers to the audience. I think it was Tig who organised that. Tony: (laughs) Yeah, it must have been Bernie as well. He has a head full of that sort of stuff. He'd be driving, trying to find the gig in Scarborough, and he'd pull up and ask some poor geezer walking along the street, Bernie would say, "Excuse me mate, do you know where Web's End is?" "No, I've not heard of that ..." "Up the spider's arse" (laughs) Oh dear. And I wonder what ever became of Groucho, the singer. Phenomenal voice, what a range. Pete: Where was he from? Tony: The East End, Groucho. I've never seen him for thirty years, I suppose. Of course, if I'd been here for Isaac's funeral, I probably would have, he must have been there. But luckily I wasn't, I was in Australia. It must have been awful ……… awful. Pete: When I came to stay with you, Tony, in Brighton, twenty odd years ago, you were working in the pit band for Phantom of the Opera, as I recall. Tony: Oh yeah, I've done loads of West End shows, loads of them. Of course now, they're the great God, doing a West End show now, because all the sessions have disappeared. All them tremendous players are now fighting each other to get a gig in the pit. So the bands are tremendous - if you go and watch a West End show, the bands have got the best players. It's a totally different era. When I used to do them, nobody really wanted to do them. Pete: Phantom of the Opera had some reputation. Tony: Well, I know, but ... it was still a second-class thing to do. I did them because I enjoyed it. I liked going to work on a Monday night. (laughs) Pete: I recall you getting on your bike to Brighton station, hoying your bike on the train, off to the West End. Tony: Great. And it was the only place you could get a drink after eleven o'clock, on the train. The ten past eleven from Victoria was marvellous, parties all the way back to Brighton every night. It was tremendous. Trying to pedal my way back up the hill .…. (laughs) Smashing! Pete: What are you doing music-wise in Australia? T Tony: The same. Whatever comes along. Like I say, I work with Dave a lot, and we have a little band, called "Old Kids Off Their Blocks". (laughs) Which is a great fun thing to do. Pete: What sort of thing? Tony: It's bluesy, country, jazzy, country, bluesy ….. it's what we are, what we do - drink beer and play the blues. Pete: And you travel Australia with that, or just local? Tony: No, just in Sydney really. There aren't any tours any more. Pete: Same as here. Tony: Same as here. We're all hanging on by a thread, really. Pete: Did you do some stuff at the Opera House? Tony: Well, I've done gigs there, yeah. Pete: Who with? Tony: Australians. (laughs) I suppose they're names over there, I don't think you'll have heard of them here. But the standard of musicianship's tremendous in Australia. For a small population. You get these kids coming into town who've learnt to play by listening to their radios in the outback. They can just get the ABC, one station in the outback with a few jazz programmes on, and they've learnt to play from that. Absolutely tremendous players - no lessons or restraints put on them. Real free spirit type players, and I think, "Wow, that's great, that. Really good." Just musical people who've learnt from the sheer love of it. Everyone goes to college now, to learn music - churn them all out at the end of the year, and they've got nowhere to play. They've got to get a job, so they come and do the job I'm doing for half the money. (laughs) It's their turn, it's okay, changing of the guard……. Pete: They don't quite do the job ... Tony: It's their turn. We've had our go. Suddenly you realise how old you are. [end of tape] Break for a pint - tape resumes during conversation ……………. Tony: ............. Clark Terry. That was a smashing band, really good playing. Pete: Was it a big ... Tony: No, it was a quintet. Every night they'd come to work immaculate, new suits, clean shirts on, no scruffy old jeans and t-shirt syndrome. It really opened my eyes that - you've got to look the part as well. I'm working with the singer, Fast Freddy and the Fingertips, and he said, "Mate, what's the point if the audience look better than you? It's defeating the whole object." It's true, innit? If you're scruffier than the audience ... Pete: It hasn't been a night out for them. Tony: Exactly. He used to come on, Freddie - we all had to get new suits to be in his band - he used to come on with a big suitcase full of doughnuts ... (makes scoffing noises). Homer Simpson's favourite band! Pete: Colin tells the story about when you got the gig at Ronnie's, you'd just taken a gig up at - was it Spennymoor, or Peterlee, or somewhere? Tony: Peterlee, I think. Pete: And somehow you clicked with the audience. The manager was real upset, he said, "I'll buy you all a new suit." Tony: Yeah. (laughs) It's incredible innit, again, Back Door … resident band in a nightclub having to accompany singers ... with saxophone, bass and drums ... (laughs) Amazing stuff. Pete: Were they northern singers, or were they people on the circuit? Tony: Just on the circuit.
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