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	BACK DOOR
	A telephone interview with Ron Aspery recorded by Pete Bell on 27th January 2003 Page 2
	Ron: Someone from Ronnie Scott's, I'm not sure if it was him or Pete King, was walking along Shaftesbury Avenue or Charing Cross Road, and saw the album. Of course they used to play it, some of the shops used to play it …. music …. because they had record players. And of course, it must have been Pete King, someone working at Ronnie's, might have been Ronnie himself, went in, and said, "Who's this? I've never heard of them." "Well, it's a band from the North." The next thing you know, there's a phone call ….. "Would we like to do two weeks at Ronnie Scott's?" Oh! It was always my dream to play Ronnie Scott's, because it's got a, what's the word ……… ? Ronnie Scott's - there's a whole thing about it - it's world class isn't it? The people I'd seen there ……. I mean - that's it, isn't it? Can you imagine? We were bloody nervous. Hodgkinson was more nervous than us two, you know, me and Hicks. Because I mean, technically, he's not really a "jazzer" as such. There's only one Hodgkinson, isn't there. He plays that way. And the other band's, Chick Corea, "Return to Forever". So we shared the bill. But the guy at the Starlight, Gerry, what was his name again? Oh, Hartley …. we said, "We've been offered two weeks at Ronnie Scott's. That's all right, innit?" He said, "If you do that, don't come back. You've lost this job." Well, there wasn't a choice, was there? (laughs) "Well that's it then. Lost the job." Just before we did the two weeks, he just called a halt to it. Pete: Didn't it get extended, Ron, didn't it turn out to be three weeks? Ron: Yes. Well, it was so popular ….. it was so packed, he just asked both of us, Chick Corea's band and us, if we'd do another week. It was absolutely roaring business. Pete: Was that the first time you'd met Ronnie Scott? Ron: Yeah, I think so. Did I tell you what happened on the second night? Pete: Go on. Ron: Pete King, you know what he's like. We were the first band in there with lots of amplifiers. I had a double stack for my Wurlitzer piano, with all sorts of wah-wah pedals and so on, and I was all bugged up as well. And of course Hodgkinson had a big stack. We'd got our own PA and not theirs. Theirs is a jazzy one. And Pete King says "Well, fuck the audience mate. Let's not bother about them …. Don't let 'em in! Let's just put amplifiers and stacks on every seat ……… (laughs) Anyway, the next night ….. at gigs, I have always got there really early …. at least an hour before the gig. The very least. You have to check everything's working, and you set your stall out, don't you? And I was coming out, as usual …. you know when you come out of Ronnie Scott's, you turn left and you go to the Dog and Duck. I mean musicians have done that since time began, haven't they? But you want to get out to a pub, don't you. It's funny how you always want to go somewhere else for a drink before a gig, isn't it - you're never happy with just being where you are. So anyway I'd gone in the next night, and I saw Ronnie listening, if you like, for want of a better ….. I was on the way out, and he was sat in the foyer. And he said, "Can I have a word?" I said, "Look, Ronnie, you don't have to ..." I thought it was the sack. I thought he's had a listen and it's ….. "No", he said, "I've noticed you come in really early, could you come in even earlier? So you can just give me some pointers." Give Ronnie Scott some lessons! (laughs) Because Ronnie's always been very, very under-rated, just because he's Ronnie Scott. He's a bloody good player. I'd been listening to him since I was a kid. He's this icon, isn't he? So I was convinced it was the sack, and I couldn't believe it when he actually wanted some lessons. He said, "I use the old stock phrases all the time. I know exactly what I'm going to play. Whereas you, you seem to be ..." Actually that's not quite true because I've got my stock phrases. We all have haven't we? He said, "It just seems to me, you really are random improvisors. It's different every time". He said "I bore myself. I know exactly what's coming next. But you seem to be throwing caution to the wind." So that's it, that was the birth of "Back Door". Then of course the next thing, the record companies ….. when they read all the rave reviews …… Pete: Because you got them, didn't you? They really were exceptional reviews. Ron: It was ridiculous. Whole pages in the Musical Express and the Melody Maker. Fold out middle bits, and things like that. I've got them somewhere …... Then of course Richard Branson, Virgin, the record company, Warner Brothers and all that, and a few more…….fucking fighting tooth and nail suddenly. We'd sent some tapes before, things like that, but we always received replies back like, "If you got yourselves an organist .….." Because all bands had an organist then, didn't they …. or a singer - "If you had a lead singer……." Well, fuck it. It's not in the nature of that band, is it? And then, just suddenly, they're all fighting like hell about who gets us. And of course, as soon as that happened, Warner Brothers, we were straight off to America ……… Pete: Tell us the Richard Branson interlude. Ron: It's a beauty that, isn't it? When people come to me for advice about how to get on in the music business, I tell them about me turning Richard Branson, Phil Collins and Sting down. I'm not really the person they need to ask for advice on how to get on in the music business. (laughs) . They should ask anybody else. Those are three of my judgements. (laughs) Mind you I think I was right (laughs). Pete: Richard Branson, didn't you say he was a student at the time, as compared to Warner Brothers, who were ….? Ron: Well, he was. But he did have this record shop in Notting Hill Gate. One …one record shop. He had no record company. And he lived on a boat. I didn't realise his family were really loaded, apparently. He invited me round to his boat. Wherever we played, because we played in London pubs, he'd be there, right in the front row, right in the middle. Boasting about what he was going to do ….. he'd have record shops all over the place and all that ……. "I'll have one in Glasgow, Luton, Brighton, Middlesbrough, everywhere….." These shops. "Yeah, yeah." (laughs) So he showed us photographs of this pregnant woman ……. And he'd like "Back Door" to launch Virgin Records. But then Warner Brothers came. So here we'd got this guy who lives on a boat with one record shop. Pete: It was down near Little Venice wasn't it? Ron: Little Venice, yeah. Near Maida Vale, I think. So you've got this guy who's got one record shop, one poky little record shop, and who lives on a boat. And he's going to have all these shops everywhere. As opposed to Warner Brothers ……. a truly international, very famous record company. Frank Sinatra and all that ….. I mean, what would you have done? You know. Of course, there's no contest is there. (laughs) I think you'd have done the same thing, wouldn't you? He'd asked me for advice on signing people as well ….. he knew nothing about the record business. He said "This guy's sent me a recording. He plays all the instruments himself. Should I sign him ……? He's called Michael Oldfield". And I listened to this stuff, and I didn't like it. Too tinky winky. So I said "Look, if the postman comes, walking across your plank in the morning, and he's whistling a tune ….. Sign him. It's easy. You just need his signature across a stamp or something ……" And he said "Well, what about this Michael Oldfield?" And I said "Aaagh ……. Well, you could do the same I suppose. Same as the postman". Anyway…… 900,000 albums later ……. (laughs) A year or so later I tried to ring him, Richard Branson. And I couldn't get past his secretary's secretary's secretary. (laughs). It was like "Fuck you!" Pete: Yeah. (laughs) Ron: The Phil Collins one was when we were at Ronnie Scott's. He came down, he was in a band called Brand X, and he said he sang as well. He said "If there's ever a gap in the drumming department of "Back Door" .…. (laughs) Pete: He'd like the gig? Ron: He'd like it, yeah. And I said, "Well, give us your card." He grabbed a piece of paper and a pen and wrote it down. I put it in my wallet, "Well if anything ever …….we'll give you first call …… give you an audition or something." But the other one, the Sting one, was from Ronnie Pearson, because he knew him from being a teacher, when he was a teacher, Gordon Sumner, in Newcastle. Ronnie wanted to get Sting in. He said, "He sings as well, and the girls try and get his trousers off." I didn't think we were that sort of band. (laughs) You don't need girls trying to get your trousers off. We were trying to be all serious ….. Mingus and Monk and all that, people don't do that to those people, do they? He formed his own band, called Last Exit. "Back Door" ….. right …. "Last Exit". Then there was that article in the Melody Maker, asking him about his beginnings in the North-East. Pete: This was when Police were in full flight? Ron: Yes. And he said, basically, he was hanging about in Newcastle, Middlesbrough, Redcar, with a load of failed, pathetic, balding jazzers. I thought, "Who is he referring to?" It would have been a hell of a band, wouldn't it? Phil Collins and Sting. (laughs) Pete: It would have been a bit different. Ron: Instead of Hicks and Hodgkinson. I reckon they owe me at least a million pounds each, Sting and Phil Collins. I could have said "Yes". That way they'd be up at Blakey this March the 12th. (laughs) You know, multi multi multi million ....if it hadn't been for me they'd never have ... They really should thank me at least, shouldn't they? Pete: I think so, yeah. What about the gigs at Blakey, that must have lasted about a year or so every Tuesday, wasn't it? And like you say, within a few months it was absolutely heaving. And it got a reputation amongst musicians, didn't it? I remember people just dropping in, all sorts of people would just drop in, wouldn't they? I mean, in later stages, people like Bernie Holland, you know? It really got to be like ..... Ron: Oh yeah, Dave McCrae and all that. Oh yeah ……. it became almost like a religion didn't it? Like a Ronnie Scott's, same sort of reputation, or a Cavern. Musicians would know, wouldn't they, that it existed? Pete: Some of that must have been down to Brian as well. He is a great character, isn't he? Ron: Oh yeah! He used to be a bass player as well, didn't he? Pete: Yeah, he played stand-up, that one that was in the corner of the room at the pub, for a long time. Ron: Yeah. Apparently he wasn't very good ….. (laughs) Pete: The recording session, when the first album was done ....How did you find the studio, did you know these people? Ron: No, it was just picking one out from a music magazine. Pete: Just sticking a pin …….? Ron: Yeah, really. Oh by the way, you know I said we didn't do a mix, because we didn't know what one was really. It was done on a four-track machine, but of course we never used the fourth track - we only used three of them. So there's actually an empty track - I've got the masters here, and there's an empty track. You get all these people with millions of overdubs, and layers of stuff, and all that? We didn't even use all four. Pete: Surplus to requirements (laughs) …. Ron: But then, we went to New York and Jimi Hendrix's studio, Electric Lady…….. Pete: That must have been a hell of a contrast. Ron: Yeah (laughs) ….. that was the second album. Pete: So Warner Brothers, they signed you, it must have been '72 or '73 then? (Yeah) And it was straight to the States was it, to record? (Yeah) And they chose the producer, presumably? Ron: Yeah, Felix Pappalardi. He's another one that didn't come out of it too well ……. we'd just got back, the next day ….. we got off the plane at Heathrow and we heard his wife had shot him ….. dead. Pete: Fucking hell! I didn't know that. Jesus. Ron: Yeah. I'm glad she didn't just before. Pete: At least he got the job done. Ron: Yeah. And the engineer's called Bob D'Orleans, he's supposed to be really famous. But the thing is that Felix kept wanting to play things on it. We had to keep him at arm's length, you know, because he was taking us away from what "Back Door" was. Pete: He did contribute a little bit, didn't he? Ron: He played tambourine on a few things. We thought, that's safe enough. But yeah, his wife shot him. There was one good ... have you heard of this band called the "J. Geils Band"? Pete: Yeah. Ron: Well, "Back Door" opened for them, a six week tour, something like that. You know when you're touring America, there's about three take-offs and three landings per flight ….. because it's like bus stops ….. you know, if you go from Philadelphia to Chicago …… I don't know, I can't think of east and west …. you pick some people up, and then you might go to Detroit and pick some people up, and then onto New York, something like that …..I was never keen on flying. Fascinated by it, but I'd drink …..and that didn't help. But when Warner Brothers were doing the seating for the tour …. the "J Geils Band" were on the same plane as well …… It was block booked months in advance, obviously. You got tour managers and all that. They'd usually wear very bright red or yellow jackets so you could find them ….. (laughs). Musicians on whatever they've had …. Find them easy ….. They do a deal with the American airline. The seat allocation …. so they know where everybody is and everyone knows what to do ……. is the same. As far as possible. Because it's booked so far in advance they can do that. So you know exactly, when you get on the plane, where you're going to sit, and with whom. I was next to this blonde bird, with dark glasses on, for six weeks, three flights a day. Thomas and Hicks just couldn't believe this one. I forget the name of the lead singer in J Geils …. Peter somebody ………. Peter Fox. He's got all the dark leather, the black leather gloves on ….. one of them. It's a cult band isn't it ……. that's with an "L". Hang on, I'm just having another cup of tea. And this blonde woman next to me, every day. It gets a bit boring. So I said to her, "Do you play chess?" She's a beautiful looking woman, with dark glasses on. Never ever saw her without the dark glasses. And I don't know why he wasn't sat next to her, this Peter Fox, but I was. Maybe they just didn't want to be cooped up together all day, maybe that's why. So I said, "Do you play chess?" She said, "Yes I do." I said, "Well I don't. I can't, I know nothing about it at all." But I'd heard you could get these magnetic boards, for flights, or boats …. I'd seen them in the airports, you could get these little boards for magnetic chess. So if you get turbulence the pieces don't all fall off. So I'd got one. So she said, "I'll teach you. The basics anyway ……it takes years." And we started to play, I got to learn a few things, and it did kill the time, smashing. Six weeks is very gruelling, touring and setting up and playing. And of course you're playing to anything from twenty thousand to a hundred thousand people a night. Or day, if it's a festival. Anyway, after this six weeks finished, and we came back, and we got off the plane at Heathrow, and I said to the other two, "By the way, who.….?" I didn't like asking ….. you know, if you don't know someone's name, and you've known them for a while ... you don't like saying "I'm sorry, but I don't know …… I've forgotten your …….." You don't like to ask, do you? I never thought to ask. Anyway, this is what's happened. We got off the plane and we're walking down the tunnel with our bags, and I said to the other two, "What was that blonde bird's name, that I was sat next to on the plane?" There was like a stunned silence as they both looked at each other, "What? No, come on." Do you know who it was? Pete: No. Ron: Faye Dunaway. (laughs) I forget which of the films was it, "Bonnie and Clyde" was it? Pete: Yeah. Ron: Apparently she was his girlfriend, and she'd took time out to tour with him. "Who is that bird, the blonde bird?" A lot of people would have been very impressed I suppose ….. trying to get autographs ….. (laughs). Pete: You did a fair bit in the States, and you did a fair bit across Europe didn't you, promoting the albums. Presumably organised by Warners through major agencies. Ron: Yeah. Pete: What was that like, Ron? ....The touring aspect of it, with other big bands and so on. Other well-known bands, should I say. Ron: It becomes the norm. We did America with "Emerson Lake and Palmer" for instance, "Deep Purple", and things like that. It just becomes the norm, like going to Blakey on a Tuesday. One stadium ….. when you've played it, one stadium's just like another, isn't it. Different dressing rooms and PA system. And an hotel. So really it's flight-gig-hotel, isn't it, flight-gig-hotel, flight-gig-hotel. You don't really think about the enormity of it. You know Steve Gray? He's in Sky. He's Professor Steve Gray now in Hamburg, believe it or not. The Hamburg Academy of Music. Amazing isn't it. From Saltwells Road, Middlesbrough. But I was in Sky - you know when John Williams, the guitar player, left Sky, they got me in to replace him. 'Cos they couldn't get a …… So we went to Australia….. twice. And we were doing this massive festival …… like a Hyde Park one, but in Adelaide. Hundred thousand people, easily a hundred thousand, maybe more. As far as the eye can see. Massive ….. And the equipment didn't turn up. We were there, the band ... but the equipment, these three big pantechnicons …. it didn't arrive. They got stuck or something, it was a long drive for them apparently. They'd probably come from bloody Melbourne or something. But me and Steve Gray were there. And of course there was this massive, beautiful, acoustic piano on the stage, and of course I've got a saxophone. So ….you can imagine what the Sky gear was like, with three pantechnicons and all that. And the show - massive, with the lights ……. It came to Sky's slot. Just me and Steve there, so we went on, in front of a hundred thousand people, just me and him. Just piano and sax. (laughs) So from my front living room in Tolesby (Middlesbrough), where we used to practise, me and Steve, to a hundred thousand people, doing the tunes exactly as we did them before, him on piano, me on sax, and the crowd went absolutely fucking ballistic. But Steve as well, as we were going on ….. I mentioned it out about the gear not arriving, and I said "We're going to entertain you …..do a couple of tunes," and I said to Steve, "What are we going to play, Steve?" and Steve being Steve, he said, "Aah ….You'll see," and he started to play "You are my heart's delight." [sings] "You are my heart's delight, dah dah dah dah ......." He'd given me a little clue, but he didn't tell me what……. Or the next tune … what it was going to be. But the crowd went absolutely... because of the theatre of it, because we'd made the effort. And it was definitely different. (laughs) Because it was a rock venue, and we were playing "You are my heart's delight." And they must have been probably stoned as well. They probably thought it was - well, they did think it was fantastic. We got rave reviews. The others were a bit put out about it, they thought "Christ, we might as well just send them everywhere." Pete: Sky was just after "Back Door", was it? Ron: Yeah, I suppose. Pete: Because "Back Door" would have lasted …… was it five or six years from being signed by Warners? Ron: It's all a blur …. An alcoholic blur really …. Pete: It sort of ran a natural course, I guess. Ron: Yeah. Then nothing happened for ages, did it? And now this new one. A new recording ……It sounds all right, doesn't it? Pete: The new one? The new one is excellent, man. Ron: I'm pleased with it. Pete: Yes. It's a beautiful piece of work. Ron: I phoned up Thomas yesterday, we were talking about what tunes we were going to play up at Blakey ….. we decided we're going to do quite a few of those vocal blues ones. Because they're good audience getters, aren't they. I know people like to hear the clever stuff as well ….. but Thomas said, "But why don't we just do it like we used to, for fun, and not be frightened of …… 'Oh, I can't remember this, can't remember that......' Why don't we just do it like …. just have a really good time." And I agreed, because that rubs off on people, doesn't it? Pete: 'Course it does. If the band are enjoying themselves, you're nine tenths of the way there, aren't you? Ron: Yeah. Rather than be too tired and too serious, depressed. It's always been a big part of the band anyway, hasn't it ……the shuffly blues thing? Pete: Yeah, and the rags and so on. Ron: Yeah, it's always been part of it. And people who are even not into jazz and don't understand musical instruments can get into that, can't they? That's been part of Back Door's …… any success they've had …… is it's reasonably accessible. Pete: And also very humorous. Ron: Yeah. Well, yeah. When Hicks heard my comedy album and I said "What do you think?" he said "It's just like Back Door". I know what he meant. Pete: What was the name of the track you were playing him? "Banana Skin" or something? Ron: Yeah. I know what he means. A lot of people have told us that "Back Door" makes them laugh. And musicians have said it just makes them laugh. They can see the humour in it. I suppose there is really ….. Pete: Since then, end of '70s, you've worked with all sorts of people, haven't you Ron. Ron: I became a session player ….. for fifteen years, up and down to London ….going from Brighton. At least three sessions a day ….seven days a week. Oh Christ, yeah. Record sessions and that. Just as a session player. Oh, and jingles. Pete: Things like, oh I don't know, Roger Daltrey. Did you do some work with Roger Daltrey? Ron: Yeah. I did a lot of films, like "The Spy Who Loved Me." And did you ever see that one, "McVicar"? The Who Films? It was supposed to be three weeks ….. I was in the studio with "The Who" ….. Pete Townsend and that .……. In the end, I did two weeks. It was supposed to be three …… but I was so knackered, and I said to Pete Townsend, "You're going to have to get somebody else next week, the third week. Because I just can't fucking take it, I can't do it." Because you can imagine what they're having …….. from morning 'til night. And they had their barman there, you know, with the white gloves on. They had a big flight case, and they open it up, this door, with this guy there, in immaculate evening dress, white gloves, and a barrel of real ale at the bottom. And optics. That's apart from anything else they're famous for having ……. (laughs) I just couldn't take it. So I said to Pete, "I'll get somebody else in …….. unless you want to do it, or the agency." And he said, "Oh, Christ man, this is fuck all …… it's nothing!" He said "You should have been around when Moonie was around ….. this is fuck all!" Oh….. What! So it wasn't all just cutey-pie jingles and …… you know.
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